View Full Version : What direction should I take?
em1toevo
03-15-2007, 03:32 PM
I have a daily driven evo that will not see much track use(until I have more time). I want to make a decision before I buy something and have to go back later to spend more. I was thinking of just getting some swift, tanabe, or espelir springs. I definitely don't want to buy springs if it is better to save for coilovers. I know coilovers are better, but are they overkill for someone wanting bascially a nice drop with added handling? I'm not one to constantly change ride height or knowledgeable enough to fine tune for efficient race settings. Would springs be the way to go in my case? If so, does anyone have preferences based on their own setups?
YSLBTT
03-15-2007, 03:47 PM
Added handling? Im sorry but unless you go full out suspension kit, theres nothing better out there. Lookswise, springs will do fine. Mitsu already gave us top of the line suspension work. Thats what i hear, and after i went autox'ing, it was proven to me. I dont think you can go better than stock, with springs, or coilovers.
.02
em1toevo
03-15-2007, 03:58 PM
I would really prefer to cut down on my fender gap. However, if it will be detrimental to the handling of the car, then I simply can't compromise. The evo handles great to me now. I would hate to lose that by putting something inferior on there. I guess that's why we have one of the best handling cars on the road. Now, only if we had AYC on our american evos...
YSLBTT
03-15-2007, 04:03 PM
I know. AYC would rock. lol I wanna lower it too but dont wanna lose handling.
em1toevo
03-15-2007, 04:09 PM
Oh well, that just means more money towards power mods!
alg626
03-15-2007, 04:45 PM
yeah but the AYC has to be serviced every 5,000 miles and is more expensive, 2 main reasons why we didn't get it,
BlewByYouEvoVIII
03-15-2007, 06:56 PM
It has been proven on the track by professionals that unless you get a top of the line coilover set such as ohlins, etc. you will not improve your handling. Springs look better, but really hurt the suspension. Even a set of Tein coilovers has been proven to add 2-3seconds on a medium size track. So you would be paying alot of money to slow down your car, make it ride worse, but hey, it will look better. I say stick with the stock setup until you feel you really need to upgrade. I have 341awhp and am still on the stock suspension, never had any problems.
.03 :D
TripperFx3
03-15-2007, 07:04 PM
The stock suspension is great. If you wanna keep that feel and close the fender gap the swift or Espelier are great. I personally have the Swifts and love them. Also if you have a little more to spend the Megan Coilovers have been proven on the track. Just check EvoM and you'll see good things on em and they only cost 800 bucks. For better results you can go with the JIC's or Ohlins. I had JICs on my old car and loved em.
BlewByYouEvoVIII
03-15-2007, 09:02 PM
woah! Big balla!!! Agreed though JIC's are nice aswell, I personally havnt heard of results with them or with the springs listed, all I have heard are personal reviews on evom as you mentioned, but no solid results. I will say that lowered Evos look really sexy!
em1toevo
03-18-2007, 11:12 AM
I do admit that when I had my civic lowered on springs that it was a pain. I like not having to worry about speed bumps or driveways.
TripperFx3
03-18-2007, 04:07 PM
Thats true, but you see how high the Evo sits from the factory. As long as you dont go with S.Techs you'll be fine and wont scrape too much. I can go in my driveway head on and not worry about scraping with the Swifts, but did with the S.Techs. Also the Swifts have an incredibly high spring rate for a spring (5.5k front and 4.6k rear i believe), but they ride like stock.
It has been proven on the track by professionals that unless you get a top of the line coilover set such as ohlins, etc. you will not improve your handling. Springs look better, but really hurt the suspension. Even a set of Tein coilovers has been proven to add 2-3seconds on a medium size track. So you would be paying alot of money to slow down your car, make it ride worse, but hey, it will look better. I say stick with the stock setup until you feel you really need to upgrade. I have 341awhp and am still on the stock suspension, never had any problems.
.03 :D
Dude, this just isn't true... Robi at Robispec has proven this theory wrong. I know your guy that you really respect told you this, and that's cool... But, it's just not true. SO many people say this but never have any good data to back up their claims. Robi totally has data to back up his claims.
Evo's with springs with a moderate drop with the added help of a rear sway have shown track times as good or better than that of Evo's with coilovers.
The simple fact is this. Getting a top grade spring like Robispec's or Swifts WILL NOT hurt the quality of your ride. Will it improve it? No. Adding a better rear sway will improve it. This is proven by people on the track... not just by words.
If you're looking to really upgrade your suspension, yeah... coilovers are the way to go. If you're a daily driver and just want a visual enhancement, a good set of Swift's is absolutely fine. Get a good rear sway and you'll even improve the handling.
em1toevo
03-18-2007, 05:45 PM
What kind of rear sway bar do you recommend? Does it need to be a larger diameter or just a solid bar. Isn't the oem one hollow?
Whiteline 24mm rear sway's seem to be the top pick for Evo 8's and 9's. Some claim that you should get a 26mm, but there has been some evidence of this causing some problems...
Keep in mind that the debate on springs is always a big one. A ton of people suggest that springs will ruin the suspension but I have yet to see any evidence supporting this theory. I have, however, seen evidence of this theory being incorrect.
Sometimes I think it's just a part of the big penis syndrome. Basically, if you don't spend as much money as that other guy, your car sucks. It's the same debate with the eBay exhaust vs a $900 exhaust... Some are saying the eBay exhaust doesn't make as much power as a $900 exhaust... which is unfounded. They both have 3" piping... 3" piping is 3" piping.
I just think some people just get caught up in the whole moding thing and if you don't have what they have, your car sucks. I don't personally buy into all of that. Sure, you get what you pay for... I do buy into that wholeheartedly... You spend a ton of money on coilovers, you're going to get performance without a doubt. You spend $300 on some springs, you may not get added performance, but you're not going to get degraded performance either. You spend $80 on some springs and you'll absolutely get some degraded performance.
Some of these springs you're talking about (especially the Swifts) were designed for stock Evo's. They have a drop that has shown not to hurt ride quality in their tests... It's as simple as this... If you get the springs and they hurt your ride quality, return them and go back to stock until you can get some coilovers. I'm willing to bet my next pay check that they don't hurt the suspension quality one bit.
BlewByYouEvoVIII
03-18-2007, 08:19 PM
It has been proven on the track by professionals that unless you get a top of the line coilover set such as ohlins, etc. you will not improve your handling. Springs look better, but really hurt the suspension. Even a set of Tein coilovers has been proven to add 2-3seconds on a medium size track. So you would be paying alot of money to slow down your car, make it ride worse, but hey, it will look better. I say stick with the stock setup until you feel you really need to upgrade. I have 341awhp and am still on the stock suspension, never had any problems.
.03 :D
Dude, this just isn't true... Robi at Robispec has proven this theory wrong. I know your guy that you really respect told you this, and that's cool... But, it's just not true. SO many people say this but never have any good data to back up their claims. Robi totally has data to back up his claims.
Evo's with springs with a moderate drop with the added help of a rear sway have shown track times as good or better than that of Evo's with coilovers.
The simple fact is this. Getting a top grade spring like Robispec's or Swifts WILL NOT hurt the quality of your ride. Will it improve it? No. Adding a better rear sway will improve it. This is proven by people on the track... not just by words.
If you're looking to really upgrade your suspension, yeah... coilovers are the way to go. If you're a daily driver and just want a visual enhancement, a good set of Swift's is absolutely fine. Get a good rear sway and you'll even improve the handling.
We are talking about stock Evo suspension vs springs alone or coilovers, not sway bars. Not comparings springs to coilovers. I never said anything about sway bars not helping, just said springs alone would not, and they wont. Will the quality of the ride be hurt? no, but you will lose time on a track vs stock. A manufacturing company is not going to release tests showing their product to be worthless or inferior to a stock setup. Find a source that is not trying to sell a product.
We are talking about stock Evo suspension vs springs alone or coilovers, not sway bars. Not comparings springs to coilovers. I never said anything about sway bars not helping, just said springs alone would not, and they wont. Will the quality of the ride be hurt? no, but you will lose time on a track vs stock. A manufacturing company is not going to release tests showing their product to be worthless or inferior to a stock setup. Find a source that is not trying to sell a product.
That's a big negative, slick... How about you find a source that backs up your claims that springs alone will harm the ride quality by 2-3 seconds on a medium sized track. I at least can show data, even if you think it's biased, showing the opposite. ;)
Sure, they're not going to show that their product harms the quality of the ride.... but they're not going to make a product that does either. If they did, then capitalism would take over. People would be returning the items left and right and they'd go out of business.
There is absolutely no supporting evidence that I could find that without a doubt suggests that springs harm the ride quality of the Evo. There is, however, plenty of evidence from the companies and people that drive their Evo's and track them that suggests that there is absolutely no difference in ride quality with a high priced set of springs.
Swifts are linear, have a conservative spring rate and don't provide an over-the-top drop on the car. I can understand you trying to argue that a progressive spring with a soft spring rate would ruin the handling of the car... that makes sense. I won't argue there... However, Swifts and similar springs just don't hurt the ride quality one iota.
However, I'm open... you find some hard data suggesting that springs harm the ride quality of the Evo and I'll open mouth kiss you at our next meet.
em1toevo
03-18-2007, 09:52 PM
I found a set of tanabe gf210 springs for 190 shipped. I have heard good things about their springs comparing them to swift and espelir. That was another reason why I asked about springs in general. Are they worth the money?
TripperFx3
03-18-2007, 10:07 PM
Ive heard good things about the Tanabes and they are quite a bit cheaper than the swifts or espeliers, but compare the spring rates of the 3 and if the Tanabes are the same or close id say do it and get the sway bar and you'll be straight.
Now for the discussion that Dean and Ryan are having... :lol: As dean stated a cheap, poor quality, spring will hurt the ride quailty and the suspension. The way it'll hurt the suspension is the fact that most of the cheaper springs (teins for example) drop the car TOO MUCH! There is somewhat of a limit to what the stock struts will handle when it comes to a drop. When i switched i saw an improvement in handling and ride quailty. Also when i put my Tein springs on my old 240 they blew the factory struts within the next day or two.
As far as a rear sway bar goes they help take care of the understeer that pretty much all AWD cars have when pushed to the limit. There is a risk in that though. Go to agressive and the car will start to drift. Id have to say go 24mm for daily driver.
As far as coilovers go. Look on EvoM in the videos section. Theres a clip or a guy and his friend going through the Mtns. He has Ohlins set up by RobiSpec and his friend is stock and he just rockets away in the corners. Its amazing.
I found a set of tanabe gf210 springs for 190 shipped. I have heard good things about their springs comparing them to swift and espelir. That was another reason why I asked about springs in general. Are they worth the money?
I say stick with Swifts. Tried and true. :thumbup:
em1toevo
03-18-2007, 11:43 PM
Good point. Can't argue with that.
By the way, Ryan... even though I disagree with you on this, I still want to get married and bare your children one day.
YSLBTT
03-19-2007, 12:27 PM
omg teh ghey...
alg626
03-19-2007, 01:10 PM
By the way, Ryan... even though I disagree with you on this, I still want to get married and bare your children one day.
yeah i totally walked in on the wrong part of conversation here, lol
YSLBTT
03-19-2007, 01:18 PM
ANYWAY... keep the suspension stock. Buy some struts and sways. I went autocrossing yesterday. I had no problems with suspension, except some understeer. Rear struts and sways will fix that for you ;)
TripperFx3
03-19-2007, 01:23 PM
By the way, Ryan... even though I disagree with you on this, I still want to get married and bare your children one day.
Wow... And on that note im gonna go...
YSLBTT
03-19-2007, 01:23 PM
http://www.evoatlanta.com/upload/03%2018%2007/03%2018%2007%20Autox%20&%20Downtown%20063.jpg
http://www.evoatlanta.com/upload/03%2018%2007/03%2018%2007%20Autox%20&%20Downtown%20114.jpg
http://www.evoatlanta.com/upload/03%2018%2007/03%2018%2007%20Autox%20&%20Downtown%20118.jpg
Check the pics from yesterday.
em1toevo
03-19-2007, 01:23 PM
I just thought about something. I am able to get into the evo right now with my broken leg. If I lower it I might not be able to get in as easy. I am not sure how this leg will affect me down the road yet.
ANYWAY... keep the suspension stock. Buy some struts and sways. I went autocrossing yesterday. I had no problems with suspension, except some understeer. Rear struts and sways will fix that for you ;)
I think he wants the added appearance of a lowered vehicle. We all know Ed doesn't care about his fender gap, but some of us find the car more aesthetically pleasing with a more aggressive stance regardless if it improves handling or just leaves it as is.
omg teh ghey...
Oh please... Ed and Walter do it all night long.
ANYWAY... keep the suspension stock. Buy some struts and sways. I went autocrossing yesterday. I had no problems with suspension, except some understeer. Rear struts and sways will fix that for you ;)
Dude, "No problem"? Look at your car... it's about to flip over. You can't tell me that the Evo couldn't be improved by a lower center of gravity and nicer struts/springs.
YSLBTT
03-19-2007, 02:54 PM
fender gap ftw!!!
dean dont be jealous of me and walter kthxbye
welery
03-19-2007, 03:24 PM
Oh please... Ed and Walter do it all night long.
no sir! Ed is for sure a 1 minute man!
YSLBTT
03-19-2007, 03:28 PM
LOL you guys suck
back on topic.. yeah suspension, yeah... cool
BlewByYouEvoVIII
03-20-2007, 02:49 AM
By the way, Ryan... even though I disagree with you on this, I still want to get married and bare your children one day.
lol omg, that so caught me off guard... i honestly dont know what to say to this, lol....
BlewByYouEvoVIII
03-20-2007, 02:52 AM
Oh please... Ed and Walter do it all night long.
no sir! Ed is for sure a 1 minute man!
LMAO
i used to have swift springs on my and loved them... my friend had the tanabes or watever and i liked the swift way better...
but i also thought buying springs was a waste cuz none of them will have what you want.... like swift has a nice drop but no too low and rides really well (but for me i wanted something lower so my car would look meaner) and tanabes have a low drop but doesnt ride as well as swift...
so look on to coilovers and you will find something that you like and you can always change how low you want it :thumbright:
TripperFx3
05-02-2007, 10:43 PM
I miss my coilovers on my 240... :( JIC's make a great product, but damn are they expensive!!!
YSLBTT
05-02-2007, 11:32 PM
ay its felipe!
what up fool, when you coming to atl
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