How many of you?

[em1toevo]

How many of you guys still have your front undertray?

I am so glad I took mine off. It is hella easy to change the oil now. Although I know it does help somewhat with channeling airflow under the car.

[Evolvedgti]

I do not have mine. I had a month straight where my LICP kept popping off. I just left it off for ease.

[em1toevo]

You think it made a difference in performance by taking it off? I personally doubt that it does.

[BlewByYouEvoVIII]

Brett, at the limit it makes a big difference. I believe having one on proves to add a few seconds off of your lap times if you track the car. Downforce is the key my friend. With that said, if you DD your car and dont track it much, its best to leave it off to make it easier to get to everything. Just my 2cents.

[riCh4G63]

I keep mine on..after taking it off and on a few times, it becomes pretty simple to attach/re-attach. Too many place under there were air can get trapped into, I think. I am also looking at the ETS 3" FMIC, I heard it fits with the stock crash beam as well as the undertray..

[Chemwarrior]

I also keep mine on but it is to keep unnecessary dirt and junk out of the lower engine bay.

[BlewByYouEvoVIII]

Its not a bad idea to keep it on. I will most likely invest in a Beatrush underpanel one of these days.

[Evolvedgti]

You think it made a difference in performance by taking it off? I personally doubt that it does.

I do not think one way or the other. I could see how air could get jumbled without it, but like I said I took it off to save myself from a heartattack

[alg626]

Took mine off also, it just got in the way.

[apex2004]

I can see the advantages of taking it off but I just like how clean everything is. I just changed my clutch and flywheel and I couldn't believe how clean everything was. Of coarse, I used to own a 91tsi. Anything has to be cleaner than that.

[blkonblk2red]

i still have mine on but so many times its been in the way and just wanted to rip it off...

[TripperFx3]

I've never had a problem with mine. I picked up an oil filter wrench and that's been a life saver and keeps me from scraping my hands up on the undertray. Also I didn't have one on my 240sx and there was so much dust that got on my engine. It didn't matter if I gave it a full detail. By the time I got to the grocery store it was dirty again.

[TouringBubble]

I don't currently have my undertray mounted, but only because my quickly fabbed up LICP won't clear it. It is a useful part of the aero on the car.

But, Ryan you were a little off ... it doesn't provide downforce. It reduces lift ... a bit different. Reducing lift is more effective than adding downforce. They both help hold the car to the road, but downforce also adds drag while reducing lift usually does not.

Also, with the MR or the anti-lift package and brake cooling scoops, the undertray directs air specifically for brake cooling.

I've designed an improved undertray that I'll be working on with EPM soon hopefully. they are working on getting their composite production rolling and the undertray and a diffuser will be some of the first products that are built there.

[BlewByYouEvoVIII]

I don't currently have my undertray mounted, but only because my quickly fabbed up LICP won't clear it. It is a useful part of the aero on the car.

But, Ryan you were a little off ... it doesn't provide downforce. It reduces lift ... a bit different. Reducing lift is more effective than adding downforce. They both help hold the car to the road, but downforce also adds drag while reducing lift usually does not.

Also, with the MR or the anti-lift package and brake cooling scoops, the undertray directs air specifically for brake cooling.

I've designed an improved undertray that I'll be working on with EPM soon hopefully. they are working on getting their composite production rolling and the undertray and a diffuser will be some of the first products that are built there.

I stand corrected :) However, correct me if Im wrong, but when your cutting through the wind if you reduce lift arent you therefore increasing downforce? your either lifting up or being pushed down, and by reducing lift it should help plant the car more. I was under the impression they worked hand in hand. Also downforce does not always add drag, in most cases yes, but well designed downforce parts dont always add drag. You know more than I do about this, I was hoping you could clarify for me :) Thanks

[mouse]

I had to take mine off to fit the bigger intercooler!

[TouringBubble]

You've got 2 forces working ... lift and downforce and they oppose each other. Obviously, downforce pushes down and lift pushes up.

Due to their relationship, you could say that downforce reduces lift or lift decreases downforce ... both would technically be true if you were talking about overall pressure in either direction. But, the 2 do exist independent of each other.

In the case of vehicle aero, you can approach downforce two ways ... you can increase the actual downward force with wings and canards and such, or you can reduce the upward force ... the lift. If you reduce lift, the force pressing down on the car is technically the same ... it's just more effective since there is less of the opposing force pushing up. The overall downward pressure on the vehicle is greater.

So, it's all relative, yes. In almost all cases, it's preferable to reduce lift as much as possible as it's more effective than adding downforce. Adding downforce means increasing interaction with opposing forces, like wind, and therefore causing drag. Reducing lift means decreasing interaction with these forces, and can often reduce drag.

Make sense? It's all kind of transparent so it's hard to describe.

[bomjoon]

i still got mine.

i like keeping everything on the car.

hell i still keep all my stereo equipment in when i goto the track. :P

[BlewByYouEvoVIII]

You've got 2 forces working ... lift and downforce and they oppose each other. Obviously, downforce pushes down and lift pushes up.

Due to their relationship, you could say that downforce reduces lift or lift decreases downforce ... both would technically be true if you were talking about overall pressure in either direction. But, the 2 do exist independent of each other.

In the case of vehicle aero, you can approach downforce two ways ... you can increase the actual downward force with wings and canards and such, or you can reduce the upward force ... the lift. If you reduce lift, the force pressing down on the car is technically the same ... it's just more effective since there is less of the opposing force pushing up. The overall downward pressure on the vehicle is greater.

So, it's all relative, yes. In almost all cases, it's preferable to reduce lift as much as possible as it's more effective than adding downforce. Adding downforce means increasing interaction with opposing forces, like wind, and therefore causing drag. Reducing lift means decreasing interaction with these forces, and can often reduce drag.

Make sense? It's all kind of transparent so it's hard to describe.

Makes perfect sense. Great description. That clarifies alot of what I was confused about :D Thanks again

[bomjoon]

anything matt says has to do wit fluxcapacitor.

and his face~!