I want an Honest advice

[jamsky]

Hi folks! I'm in a process of getting a set of coilovers and my heart is telling me to get the HKS hipermax III coilover. I want a very nice set-up for my IX MR and I want to know if I need these other parts for my set-up.1) Pillowball upper mounts 2) spherical bearing mounts 3) Pillowball Camber Plates 4) front and rear sway bars.

Like I said, I want an honest answer. All advice are welcome. Thanks!:)

[jamsky]

Anybody?

[blkonblk2red]

i think it needs to be adjusted as you start tuning for your driving style... like i don't think the front and rear sway bars are needed unless you think the car needs to act more like a rwd or what not at the time... where it needs to turn in more and rear end needs to come out etc... ... as of right now i have coilovers on my 240... i'm not sure what all the mounts do... i have the upper mounts on the 240 which helps me camber in my wheels bc they are wide for the body..... but i thikn you'll be happy with a nice set of coils for the evo unless your actually trying to go all out... then i'd go with what ryan has the ohlins coilovers ... but to a point some of it really over kill for street use...the mounts really depends on if your going to have an aggressive alignment year around...

its basically stupid having all this stuff and not having it tuned right and actually being used... i have everything you can imagen on the 240 but its stock alignment which defeats the purpose of even having it.. i rather would have just kept the stock stuff and saved money.... but it'll be either just a track car soon once i get the motor running right and have a aggressive alignment tune.. so it'll be put to good use soon


here is a good read :)

http://240atlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417

[Apex i ITR]

So it appears from all the research I did that all those coilovers (HKS, Apex'i, Tein, BC Racing, DSport, JIC-Magic, Kei-Office, BuddyClub, Zeal, Megan, etc) are really about the same. Stepping up from that the higher end Ohlin's, Muton's, etc.

There is a general school of thought that coilovers aren't really necessary esp. if you aren't going to be adjusting the height all that much. Seems Bilsteins and GT-Worx springs were popular for auto-x's. I think if i had to do it all over again I would go with a set of H&R coilovers.

Honestly I've had Buddy CLub's, Tein's, Jic-Magic's and BC Racing (twice). I like inverted coilovers and I got a more agressive spring rate then normal (10k front 12k rear). Also it appears that Evo's like more aggressive springs rates in the rear and alot coilover makers do the same type of setup as other cars (more agressive in the front).


I'm probably going to do a set of whiteline sway bars.....I took my car to the mountains a few months ago and I felt where the suspension setup was deficient. I'm not a auto-xer and I may track my car every once and a while but I guess it really depends on how you are going to use your car.

[Hikaru]

Forget the HKS and pick up a set of KW V3. Prolly the best streetable coil out there within reasonable price.

[em1toevo]

I have heard that too, Jason. I would probably go with the KW V3 if I were running coils. Since I wouldn't be doing that much adjusting, I decided to go with Espelirs(which are like GTWorx). They are perfectly mated to the oem struts and are track tested. The drop is decent, but not in the weeds.

[Hikaru]

^ yea bro, I pretty much only recommend the GTWorx, Espelir, and Swift springs for every street car. Coil overs are just overkill for the street in my opinion. Even for AutoX they are overkill. Smike Evo on evom runs a compliment of Bilstein struts and Swift springs (even on the track) and wins pretty consistently. And if you spent the money on a good set like you should, you would NEVER use them the way they were intended on the street.

[jamsky]

Right now I'm using just a stock Bilstein MR with Swift sports spring, I have no complain with the handling and performance of the car but I just want the drop to be a little bit more agressive that's why I want to switch to coilovers. The Swift sports spring will only give you just a half inch of a drop but that's about it.

^ yea bro, I pretty much only recommend the GTWorx, Espelir, and Swift springs for every street car. Coil overs are just overkill for the street in my opinion. Even for AutoX they are overkill. Smike Evo on evom runs a compliment of Bilstein struts and Swift springs (even on the track) and wins pretty consistently. And if you spent the money on a good set like you should, you would NEVER use them the way they were intended on the street.

[jamsky]

The IX MR has already a stock front and rear sway bars right?



i think it needs to be adjusted as you start tuning for your driving style... like i don't think the front and rear sway bars are needed unless you think the car needs to act more like a rwd or what not at the time... where it needs to turn in more and rear end needs to come out etc... ... as of right now i have coilovers on my 240... i'm not sure what all the mounts do... i have the upper mounts on the 240 which helps me camber in my wheels bc they are wide for the body..... but i thikn you'll be happy with a nice set of coils for the evo unless your actually trying to go all out... then i'd go with what ryan has the ohlins coilovers ... but to a point some of it really over kill for street use...the mounts really depends on if your going to have an aggressive alignment year around...

its basically stupid having all this stuff and not having it tuned right and actually being used... i have everything you can imagen on the 240 but its stock alignment which defeats the purpose of even having it.. i rather would have just kept the stock stuff and saved money.... but it'll be either just a track car soon once i get the motor running right and have a aggressive alignment tune.. so it'll be put to good use soon


here is a good read :)

http://240atlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417

[Hikaru]

^ Specs on the Sport Mach are 1.4" front and .8" rear (actually it's 1.32 and .79 but who's really that specific lol). But I hear ya man....it would look really good just a quarter or half inch lower. I had Tanabe GF210 springs on my 8 and the drop was about as perfect for the street as you can get. The car road really good too. Dan had these springs too and really liked them. Their specs are 1.8" and 1" I think. If you really want coils please look into the KW V3. Trust me. Ask Ryan @ Forged. He's run them and loved them for the street...

[jamsky]

Swift sport spring the specs are something like that but I'm not happy with the drop. I want a little bit more aggressive than that.

Yeah, I will consider them (forged performance) if they can give me a good package deal on a set of coils plus labor.

Right now I'm still negotiating with Tray at Zen motors, but the ball is still rolling, like I said whoever can give me a good package deal (coils, camber plates, Pillow ball mounts, sway bars, plus labor). I just want a nice suspension set-up for my IX.


^ Specs on the Sport Mach are 1.4" front and .8" rear (actually it's 1.32 and .79 but who's really that specific lol). But I hear ya man....it would look really good just a quarter or half inch lower. I had Tanabe GF210 springs on my 8 and the drop was about as perfect for the street as you can get. The car road really good too. Dan had these springs too and really liked them. Their specs are 1.8" and 1" I think. If you really want coils please look into the KW V3. Trust me. Ask Ryan @ Forged. He's run them and loved them for the street...

[jamsky]

I'm also considering KW3 coilovers.


I have heard that too, Jason. I would probably go with the KW V3 if I were running coils. Since I wouldn't be doing that much adjusting, I decided to go with Espelirs(which are like GTWorx). They are perfectly mated to the oem struts and are track tested. The drop is decent, but not in the weeds.

[bomjoon]

PIC coilovers. look them up

thats what i will be getting. with swift springs.

[Apex i ITR]

I may be going with H&R cup coilovers or I might splurge and get the Ohlins but that will be when the car is tracked more.

I would like some more oversteer. Thats one of the reasons I would like to get some sway bars.

[TouringBubble]

Where do I start ...

Pillow-ball mounts. Most coil-over setups come with these, but they may not be camber adjustable. I suggest getting the camber adjustable pillow-ball mounts in the front if the coil overs don't come with them. The Evo likes a bit of front camber ... -2.2 to -3.2 depending on the use of the car. Again, find out what the coil-overs come with.

Pillow-ball refers to the bearing in the mount. Stock mounts have a spherical bearing in a polyurethane surround (I believe). The pillow-ball is an upgrade that allows for a broader range of movement and gets rid of the slight variation in response that the stock poly mount allows. Basically, they are more precise and have no play.

With the spring rates, the Evo runs stiffer in the rear because it's a front-biased drivetrain layout. This layout is prone to understeer with a neutral spring balance. So, the rear is stiffened (or the front softened ideally) to dial out the understeer and give a more neutral balance. The stock springs on the Evo are rear biased and your aftermarket springs should be too. The actual rates and ratio between F:R is based on your preference and driving style.

For sway bars, there is a common misconception, and that is adding a rear bar alone increases grip and promotes oversteer. While this does promote oversteer, it actually decreases overall grip of the car by causing the insider rear tire to lose grip earlier and encourage rotation. This fact is true in most every aspect of suspension ... softer suspensions actually have more grip (to a point). Stiffer springs decrease weight transfer and help balance the load on the tires, and this is why the weight of the vehicle is such a big part of choosing the right spring rate. Stiffer sways also do this, but they also limit traction on the inner wheel.

Sway bars should be upgraded together, not one at a time, and they should be sized to work with your springs. You want the springs and sways to be inverse of one another ... softer springs, stiffer sways for example. Since the sways stiffen the connection between the inner and outer wheels, you need a softer spring to allow for compression on the outside wheel to keep traction on both sides.

If you have stiff sways and stiff springs, you have great transitional response, but no travel and therefore lose grip once the car tries to settle. This can be offset with more tire, but for a street car you don't want to go this route.

So, my suggestion, get a decent coilover (like the KW V3s) and upgrade both sways with them. Lower the car about 1" all around and set the rear sway to the middle position. You can adjust oversteer with the sway and then work on the overall grip level with adjustments to the struts. This will give you a very responsive car with oversteer on demand if you want without losing grip levels in the corners.

Also, get the Whiteline roll center correction kit, rear bump-steer correction kit and poly rear trailing arm bushings. That'll take out a bit more variance in the suspension.

[TouringBubble]

I swear that my posts scare people away ...

[BlewByYouEvoVIII]

Also, get the Whiteline roll center correction kit, rear bum-steer correction kit and poly rear trailing arm bushings.

I love the bum-steer kit, nothing like driving like an ass :D I kid I kid.


On a serious note, TB's description is spot on.

It sounds like the car will see mostly street use and little track use? Correct me if I am wrong. The KW's are perfect for street use where in my experience the HKS's have been better suited for track use. This of course all has to do with setup. I found that the KW's are much softer than the HKS's, but you do always have the option to switch out the spring rates to make changes as needed.

I can also get you in a set of HKS's much cheaper than a set of KW's. Give me a call at the shop to discuss if you would like :) 770-792-0202

[TouringBubble]

I love the bum-steer kit, nothing like driving like an ass :D

Lol.

(Apparently posts have to be more than 5 characters. So, this parenthetical note should fill the rest of that requirement.)

[jamsky]

I can see that. LOL!:D

I swear that my posts scare people away ...

[bomjoon]

kw's do not come with camber plates... they have to be bought spearately...

did you look up PIC coils?

[Kuruma]

IMO, the only reason I would purchase a set of coil overs is so I could adjust corner weight. I am currently running a Whiteline rear bar and swift springs. The sway bar made a huge difference in the way of acting like a RWD car(I am coming from an S2000, what I am used to).

Ask yourself why am I buying coilovers? For the drop, for bragging right, weekend mountain runs, autoX, or alot of track days. I personally would keep it stock and track it stock, untill I was reaching the limits of the car. Then I would startto modify.

[TouringBubble]

IMO, the only reason I would purchase a set of coil overs is so I could adjust corner weight.

Ask yourself why am I buying coilovers? For the drop, for bragging right, weekend mountain runs, autoX, or alot of track days. I personally would keep it stock and track it stock, untill I was reaching the limits of the car. Then I would start to modify.

I agree. This is what most experienced races will tell you. You will actually learn more about driving on the stock setup and therefore be much faster and a better driver when you switch to the upgraded suspension.

The driver's limits and the cars limit's are mutually exclusive. Most Evo owners (myself included) cannot push the car to 100%. Most push it way too hard and overdrive the car. Upgrading the suspension is not a solution for that.

[bomjoon]

its not about what you can do... its more about what the car can do.

i like having the best of everything even if i dont use it to its full potential.

im not saying spring/strut combo is not as good ... but just to have everything in a package that works is good and it also has the cool factor. :P

[TouringBubble]

its not about what you can do... its more about what the car can do.

i like having the best of everything even if i dont use it to its full potential.

im not saying spring/strut combo is not as good ... but just to have everything in a package that works is good and it also has the cool factor. :P

... says the man who doesn't use brakes at Autocross. ;)

[jamsky]

I think KW v3 is softer than the HKS Hipermax III right?

[bomjoon]

... says the man who doesn't use brakes at Autocross. ;)


dont you know less brakes = faster speed.

you can have custom spring rates with kw's

[jamsky]

I can customize spring rate with other coilovers too right?





you can have custom spring rates with kw's

[TouringBubble]

Some of them.

[bomjoon]

I can customize spring rate with other coilovers too right?

depends on a company... you need to mess with dampening/ rebound when you step up a spring rate... well you do that anyways but it will be different with original springs.

[Hikaru]

Oh lord, all this talk about dampening, spring rates, pillow mounts....just get some quality springs and call it a day. Otherwise you'll be wasting a lot of money just to get a cool looking stance that will most likely ruin the suspension geometry unless you make more adjustments...

[bomjoon]

they dont make springs in a rate i want... and the dampening set up for a strut on a reg spring can be hard to adjust...

you can find a decent coilover set up for $2000
i dont see why not go with a coilover set up which lets you adjust ride height and also corner balancing.

[bomjoon]

right now i have tanabe springs on and i personally think they suck balls...

too soft and mushy. if i had better shocks with better camber control id be happier.

yet another reason to go with coilovers.

[bomjoon]

find me a set of springs that are 10k front and 13k rear with supporting shocks that you can adjust the dampening and rebound then i will try it. but if i cant i will choose coilover set up where i can choose what i want.

[TouringBubble]

But you like my suspension Joey ... it's just springs and sways.

And, like Joey said, there are benefits to getting coilovers. And that price is correct too ... if you are getting coilovers for <$1500 or so, you're downgrading, especially if you have the MR suspension.

[Hikaru]

to each his own. i was just making a statement about a street car. i would love to have some KW's but can't justify them as i don't do any track time

[jamsky]

So what do you think TB? Should I get the HKS hipermax III and cusco front and rear sway bars and AP rear sway bar links?

What do you think with these set-up?


But you like my suspension Joey ... it's just springs and sways.

And, like Joey said, there are benefits to getting coilovers. And that price is correct too ... if you are getting coilovers for <$1500 or so, you're downgrading, especially if you have the MR suspension.

[jamsky]

Any thoughts on my planned set-up guys?

[Kuruma]

You sound pretty set on the HKS route. I just caught up on the thread and honestly I don't plan on getting coilovers anytime soon, but you guys have me sold on the KW's. Sorry to change the subject from coilovers,but TB said replace bars together, if I have a whiteline 24mm adjustable rear, what front bar should I get?

Next question: LOL

Where would you take it to get set-up? A proper set up is priceless, who knows Evo's the best, sure most shops can setup your alignment to your desired specs and do a corner weight adjustment. But who can make suggestions and changes to fine tune the setup for you? I have taken 2 miata's to Gran Turismo East and was very pleased with the autox specific alignment, has anyone used them? Any other shops locally?

[bomjoon]

get the whiteline front sway.

set up all depends on your driving style... i like lots of camber like 2.5+* up front with .5* toe out on front. rear 1.5~1.8* camber with 0 toe.

GTE charges too damn much for just alignment... you can go to any alignment place and get it to specs you want for $60.

only flaw for kw's are they dont come with camber plates... youd have to order separate... so another $300.

[TouringBubble]

So what do you think TB? Should I get the HKS hipermax III and cusco front and rear sway bars and AP rear sway bar links?

That will be a nice setup, I'm sure, but maybe a little much for the street. If you can put up with the harsh ride on the street, go with it.

[Kuruma]

get the whiteline front sway.

set up all depends on your driving style... i like lots of camber like 2.5+* up front with .5* toe out on front. rear 1.5~1.8* camber with 0 toe.

GTE charges too damn much for just alignment... you can go to any alignment place and get it to specs you want for $60.

only flaw for kw's are they dont come with camber plates... youd have to order separate... so another $300.

Yes,but your local alignment shop can't do a proper track alignment and corner weight. Being in the business, I would not trust a local alignment/tire shop with my alignment. Most can't put on a tire without scratching a wheel.

[TouringBubble]

But many shops can (the tire/alignment part). You just have to shop around to find a shop and tech that you can trust. but yes, for the corner balance you have to find a specialty shop.

FWIW, I believe GTE charged me $80 for the alignment on the Evo, but it was on stock adjustments.

[jamsky]

What car shop can do corner balance?

Forged? Zen? Who can do it?


But many shops can (the tire/alignment part). You just have to shop around to find a shop and tech that you can trust. but yes, for the corner balance you have to find a specialty shop.

FWIW, I believe GTE charged me $80 for the alignment on the Evo, but it was on stock adjustments.

[bomjoon]

i can do it at place i go to but the wont let me do other people's car...

most likely any performance shop would do them for you.

alignment you just tell them your specs and you watch the screen as they adjust...

or buy you a smart string set up and do it at home.

[Tray@Forged]

What car shop can do corner balance?

Forged? Zen? Who can do it?

Forged Performance does excellent corner balancing. They have a lot of experience setting up customers cars from Motorsports applications to street cars.

Let me know if you need a price quote.

Best regards,

[jamsky]

So how much for corner balancing?

Do I really need it for street driving? I mean I will track my car but not often tho.

Forged Performance does excellent corner balancing. They have a lot of experience setting up customers cars from Motorsports applications to street cars.

Let me know if you need a price quote.

Best regards,

[Apex i ITR]

I think balanced has someone in house that can corner weight

[Tray@Forged]

So how much for corner balancing?

Do I really need it for street driving? I mean I will track my car but not often tho.

Sent you a pm!

[jamsky]

Got it.


Sent you a pm!